Excessive Oil Through Breather

[steveNZ]

OK this ones starting to do my head a bit
Since changing engine i have:
Flushed engine with 50% diesel and oil 3 oil changes only 4000 km
Fitted a catch can
New air filter
Checked breather diaphragm
Checked all external breather pipes
I have no restrictions in air system
Only running oil level half way between min and max

Had to drive Invercargill to Queenstown yesterday 200km got there huge amount of oil before and after turbo and all the way through breather system was 1mm thick all round everything
Presumed it was my one way valve on drain from sump to catch can and oil had come back up drain, disconnected and isolated this from system so breather is only going through catch can to air intake

Drove back today 200 km again same thing

This problem has only occurred on long runs, unfortunately i was not quick enough to look under oil filler cap to see if there was a large amount of oil pooling in rocker.
Could i have an internal oil drain restricted and if so how can i clean it easily ? i have a spare rocker cover so might change that in case its a problem with the rocker breather but not sure if it will help.

Any ideas?

Steve

[steveNZ]

Going to try pressurizing the rocker cover see if i can blast through the internal oil drains, might do some good

[geeves]

Starting to sound like a new set of rings. Sorry

[steveNZ]

Was kinda hoping its not that
Have just rigged air compressor up to breather and put a drain pipe to t-piece in dipstick housing to a jar to catch any expelled oil and also release the pressure from sump
Dumped 100psi of air pressure through the system, did sound like it freed up a bit, if there was any restrictions to drain this should have cleared them
Can only wait till mid week now when i have to go to Queenstown again see if problem is still there
If it is i think a compression test is the next thing to try
Diesel mechanic thought engine sounded relay good and it runs perfectly and the venting from rocker has decreased since the ATF so still hoping its not the rings

Time will tell

Steve

[geeves]

If the engine was sitting there maybe a little corrosion on the rings. They may bed in ok again but 400km should of been enough

[steveNZ]

Engine was sat for about 4 years before i got it then only used for 2 months (did oil change at that point was vary slugged up) sat up again for 2 more years before Ive resurrected it
Even after first oil change at 500km with rocker cover off there was a large amount of sludge and deposits in engine
Did a flush with diesel and oil 50/50 still a lot of black deposits stuck to inside, so engine has had 3 oil changes now in 4000km still lots of deposits

I'm thinking its possible since engine has done about 4000km now that the sludge is slowly softening and moving down towards the drain holes partially blocking the drain holes causing the backup of oil on in the rocker on long runs
As Ive done a few long runs since changing engine and this problem has only occurred on the last 2 times find it hard to think its defiantly the rings

Am hoping that blasting the air down through engine has shifted this restriction, will do another good engine flush with diesel or ATF and oil this week (ATF apparently has excellent detergent property's)

If the problem had occurred from the start i would be thinking the piston rings but as its only just happened i am going with the sludge for now

Hope i am on the right path

Steve

[geeves]

Worse part with sitting is that the rings dont move and can lose tension. Also a lot of sludge in an engine is a fairly sure sign of shoddy maintenance by previous owners.
My engine at 205000 give or take if I put a finger into the filler and wipe it round all I get is black oil. Nothing even slightly solid.
How much would a strip down and hot tank followed by new rings and bearings cost?

[wbski007]

before condeming the motor I would run the piss out of it for a while and keep my fingers crossed, sounds like it is possable you could be on the rite track with the sluge thing.
here's a little story, I bought a 50 Olds off a old man in 1964 with about 100,000 miles on it and he said he always changed the oil every 2,000 miles but I did notice it did have low oil pressure, in those days there were no idiot lights just about all the cars from the era had machanicle gauges, I owned 50 olds before and I knew what oil pressure that 303 V-8 had, But I bought it anyway as it was a beauty, on the way home I bought some oil and a filter and the next day I jacked her up and dumped the oil and then proceded to take the filter housing down, in those days they didn't have spin ons the filter was a cartarge, well I undid the bolt that held the canister in place and pulled it down but it was hard coming off which was very unusal, usually when you loosned the bolt the canister would practicly fall off and the cartarge would come with it, not this one, to my suprise the filter cartarge was packed solid with sluge in fact you couldn't tell if there was a cartarge even there, I said to myself UT-OH I've been had. Well to late now, so I cleaned the canister out and low and behold there was a filter canister mixed in all the sluge, put in new filter and oil and fired her up, bingo oil needle pegs, tons of oil pressure rite off the bat, woopie I say. Turns out the filter was so clogged oil would't go thru anymore, lucky the bypass worked and the motor still got enough oil to not hurt it, turned out to be a great motor and never used a drop of oil. I called the old man I got it from and asked him why he never changed the filter, and he said he never new it had one, the car he owned before he bought the Olds new in 1950 was a Model A Ford and they didn't have oil filters, holy cow, I had that car for over a year and it was still going strong when I sold it, go figure

[steveNZ]

Do know a bit about engines history before i got it, think its was reasonably looked after,was parked up because of a electrical fault i think regarding the fuel cut off, don't think the sludge was to bad when parked up just in need of a good oil change combine that with sitting for 4 years and all the deposits have slowly moved to the bottom of oil basically causing the sludge
Oil pressure is good for a old engine oil light goes out instantly, pressure sits at 3.8 to 4 Kg/cm2 at cold and runs around 2 kg/cm2 at 2500rpm when hot about standard for a 4jb1t
Engine looks to have been reconditioned at some point as there's evidence of gasket goo between the sump and block
Worst case is a rebuild at some point but hoping that's still a long way off

Off now to give it a another flush hoping it will work well as by the look of things deposits have softened up

Thanks for all the input Alan and Wayne, time will tell from here

Steve

[4x4fun]

use nulon stop smoke from supercheap, it reduces blow by and oil consumption and boosts oil pressure, i used it in my mu it it worked bloody well, ive used it in other petrol engines and its pretty useless in them but for sum reason it really helps mus

[steveNZ]

Thanks 4x4fun will try if nothing else works

Did a really comprehensive flush on Sunday so hoping with blowing through the internal drains it will have helped a bit.

One thing i have noticed after looking at a 2 different factory made oil catch cans is the lack of stainless steel wool making it just a catch without the wool to condense fumes on.
This has got me thinking i stuffed as much stainless wool into my catch as i could making the wool vary compact from the top to the bottom of can, In hindsight i am thinking maybe this wasn't the best thing to do.
As the wool was so compact the oil that was accumulating in the wool was getting pushed up by the rocker pressure through the wool and also sucked up by the vacuum from the air intake,
Think this was defeating the object of having a oil catch can.
Have removed the wool now and placed a small baffle to prevent splash up in the bottom and top of can, I am thinking this should be much more affective.
Even if my piston rings are a little tired the fact my engine runs so well, produces plenty of power and doesn't burn oil means at this point i cant see the need for a rebuild, Providing i can stop the oil from getting back into air system, Any oil that's caught in the catch will simply drain back into engine.

Off for 200km run to Queenstown tomorrow, this will see if i am getting to the bottom of the problem.

Will let you know

Steve

[steveNZ]

Have to say Alan i think your right

Went to QT today just the same, it didnt happen till right near the end of journy as i could smell it when it did, rings are worn out or so stuck in and theres not much chance of a them freeing up

So a rebuild is on the cards, it will have to wait a month or 2

Gone for the short term fix for now, added Lucas Heavy Duty oil stabilizer to oil today meant to realy good for reducing blow-by seems to have worked for now as blow-by was pritty none exsistant after driving from QT to Garston
Doing the long drive tomorow or day after will be intresting to see if it helps

i know its only a temp fix but if it enables me to keep driving without loosing to much oil will have to do for now

Regards

Steve

[scruff123]

hey mate
good to hear you found a tempory fix.

how bad was the blowby?
was it as bad as this?-

P7292886.JPG

this is my 3.1, seems to have allot of blow by, trying to figure out whats causing it??

cheers

[steveNZ]

Hi scruff
Not any more than that if not a bit less and the fume a bit darker in coulor, but that could just be the way the photo makes it look as i havent made a photo of mine its a bit hard to compare,
Could live with the fume if it wassant kicking up so much oil and especaly on long runs
Might try a bigger oil catch at some point
Off to coast tomorow so will see if the oil addative has helped at all

Allways hopefull

Steve

[wbski007]

Steve, the catch can I bought on ebay turned out to be small, I tried useing it but the fittings were only for 3/8 hose, well any way I hooked it up useing smaller hose but it didn't work out, after a short run I had oil dripping out of my intake hose on the turbo, something I never had before, so I decieded to make my own catch can. I had a old fuel filter housing laying around that took 3/4 inch fittings, much better, it already had a drain cock at the bottom to let the excess oil drain out, added a few scuff pads to the inside to catch the fumes and bingo it works great. I can even take it apart by unscrewing the plastic bowl to clean it out if I want, I wonder if I had left the fuel filter in it if it would still work??? The filter would act like the steal wool or scuff pad like I used to filter the oil out of the fumes. good question?

[steveNZ]

Hi Wayne
Good work you have backed up the theory id been toying with last night.
My original catch design only used a 500ml drinking flask not really that big and i had also plumbed the inlet from rocker into the bottom of catch only about 12mm above the drain, As my engine dose vent a bit of oil wasn't taking long on a good run for oil level to reach inlet(only 2or 3 teaspoons full as the bottom of catch was funnel shaped into drain) then pressure from rocker was causing the oil to splash up all over the place hence the excessive oil in air system.

catch can 052 (Custom).jpg

catch can 053 (Custom).jpg

catch can 071 (Small).jpg

Thanks Wayne for backing up the train of thought i was following, The more i think about it the more i can see that to small a catch and or placing the inlet to close to the bottom of can will cause the catch basically to fail

Regards

Steve

[wbski007]

Good job Steve, looks great, should do the trick now

[steveNZ]

I do like your fuel filter adaption Wayne nice being able to see how much oil your trapping and looks the part
The old filter would probably work providing its not restricting the air flow to much you should give it go

[scruff123]

i think mine is to small too, cos it doesent work, and the fittings on i are way to small cuasing to much pressure in the rocker cover, oil pushes its way out around the filler cap seals on the bolts that hold it on

[steveNZ]

Looking good so far did a few 50 km today and its the first time there's been no new oil before and after turbo
will get a long run in mid week hoping Ive got this thing sorted